Our life experience fuels our work: An interview with Verenice Leon Hurtado

What does a mortgage loan officer have to do with happy work? Everything, when the person doing it is a born educator and provider who refused to let her work stay surface-level.

In this episode, Olivier sits down with Verenice León Hurtado, a mortgage professional who stopped chasing numbers and started chasing meaning, and discovered that the two aren't mutually exclusive. They're just in the wrong order for most people.

Verenice's story is one many of us will recognize: you take a job, you chase the next goal, you hit the metrics. And then one day, the fuel runs out. What she did next is what makes her a perfect example of what happy work actually looks like in practice.

In this conversation, you'll hear:

• How Verenice identified her two core inner personas — educator and provider — and why that clarity changed how she works
• Why going narrower in her business actually created deeper relationships and better results
• How her own financial hardship as the oldest daughter of an immigrant family became the very thing that makes her irreplaceable to the people she serves
• The shift from transactional to transformative work, and what that actually looks like day to day

🎙️ Connect with Verenice on LinkedIn at Verenice León Hurtado or on Instagram at @CafecitoHomeLoans

Follow on Linkedin: Olivier Egli 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm your host Olivier, and this is the Do Happy Work Podcast, where we look at work in a different, more natural, and more peaceful way. Hello and welcome back to the Do Happy Work Podcast. I'm your host, Olivier Eggley, the voice of nature in business. I just realized that we're almost three months into the new year, which is insane. I thought that the year had just begun, but it's a good moment to check back in and see how we're doing. And for me, this year is all about sticking to my value, the value that I'm here to give. And so I really made myself or forced myself to make clear that whatever I do, especially in this podcast, always serves the value that I am here to give. And that value is clarity on a better take on how to work. So I want to help people to realize that their way of working has probably started to fail them, and then there that there is a better way to work. And so I help people to reconnect with natural principles and bring those into work so that their work can shine again and they can shine in their work. But this also means that in this podcast, every now and then I invite people who represent that in the best way. People who can add and support to my value, who can support in my inspiration of others, because they themselves also stand for that very same thing and they have experienced things in their work or they have transitioned in the work to a place where they can best shine and show the rest of the world what it takes and what's possible. And so today with me is Verenice Leon Hurtado. Hello, Verenice.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

I want to uh let you shine on this show. I want people to see what's possible, what was possible for you. Uh, and I want to show people what the value is that you are here to create and give. So without any further ado, who are you, Verinese?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, you know, that's a it's a big question because sometimes I feel like a person can have a lot of different identities depending on who they are, right? At my with my family, I'm one person at work, I'm a different person. Uh, but I think down to my core, I I feel like I'm an educator and I'm um a provider of sorts.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Oh, I love that. I love it. I love it. Okay, this is this is already getting very, very interesting. Uh a while ago, I identified several types of inner persona that we can have. And you actually mentioned two right away there, right? The the educator and the provider. Those are two very strong inner personas. So the fact that you know that about yourself, I mean, that's so helpful. That must be so helpful in your day-to-day life, but also in the work that you do, because now you will only do work that is aligned with education and provision of whatever it is that you provide, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yes, yes. That's like the big part of it. It's education and you know, providing sometimes it's guidance, sometimes it's validation. So, I mean, it there's there's just so many different like levels, but a lot of it for my work really is more of the education piece. Um, and then just in general, I think that we can all be educators in one way or another. You know way more than I do about things.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

That is that's true. But I but I I mean, I my personal take is that there are the born educators and then there are the people who can educate, but to be a born educator, you know, that's quite something different than somebody who is able to educate, you know, every now and then. But some people are just born for it. Uh and they then find into workplaces or work situations like yourself. Can I ask you, when did you find out that you were in fact an educator and a provider? I mean, that's not something that we get traditionally taught at school, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:07

It's yeah, no, not at all. You know, I the older I got, I think that's it's really um I started working, and sometimes, you know, you just start working to make money, you start working to hit a career, to hit your like next goal. And the last few years, it's really been uh trying to center myself with like, do I actually like what I'm doing? Do I, you know, do I like this? Um, and then really assessing like what is it that I like the most about my job? Uh, because my job really can get down into the like it's corporate, like the sales and numbers and all of these things, but it's very like human focused, very people focused. Um and the more I really focused on like what's the my favorite part that I like doing, and it's the educating. And then I'm the oldest daughter of an immigrant family. So I've in a way have been educating like my family and people around me my whole life, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

And there's so much, there's so much to unpack. And this is why on on the on the conversation we had previous to this uh recording that blew my mind because you you you're like pack so many of the things that I truly, truly believe and discover for myself. You roll all that into one person. First off, maybe for clarity's uh purpose, what is it that you do? How would you describe the work that you do, just quickly for our listeners?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah, I'm a mortgage loan officer, so that is the corporate job. So people need a house, I help them with the financing.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Okay, great. This is amazing. So this is kind of like the top level, surface level of the work that you do. And I hope everybody listening now and having listened to me before knows where I'm getting at. Most of the time we just talk about this, right? The thing that you do. But we already know so much more about you. We already know so much more about your inner motivation, your natural motivation. There is something about you that is that transcends that work by far. Because a lot of people would, you know, they would get into that job possibly because, you know, it's an opportunity, career choices, money, as you said. But you, however, at some point you had a breaking point where you actually wanted to understand what it is that you like about it. Can can you tell me a little bit about that moment, like what that realization was? And what did you do different after you made that realization?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Yeah, you know, it's full honesty, it was probably when I was, it's a stressful job being in real estate stressful. And it was when I really decided is do I want to do this? It was when I was considering career changes into well, what other jobs are out there? And the more I started looking at different jobs or you know, any of it, I just kept on falling back into jobs that dealt with working with people. So it was going back and like working with people, working with people. And, you know, eventually I I think for me, I just stopped doing my job the way the corporate route, and I started doing it really with more centered on the people that I was working with. And then I started to just uh adjust um how I got my business. So rather than the traditional route of like going and doing it with like, hey, go to this specific industry networking event, I went the other route and started going to um working like events that really spoke to my heart, ones that are impactful in the community. And then there I started meeting more people that I liked, really, that I connected with. Um, and we had the same goals of like helping and working with people. So really for me, it was shifting the way my industry works into doing something that aligned more with how I like to work. And once I did that, it was like, oh, okay, like how do I keep going? Like, what's the next thing? Like, how do I like how do I keep going? And that's been, I think even like to now, I had a big career change in the within the last year. And it was that it was always making sure that I'm very human focused and never forget that at the end of the day, like I'm here making money because I'm helping people and really getting that um, you know, the numbers and units and all that like corporate lingo out of my daily business and putting like human faces to the yeah, I mean, there's a reason why we're talking here because wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

First off, not taking your job at face value, you know, like this this proverbial judging a book by its cover would be you judge you work by numbers would not be sufficient, right? You did that for a while. We all did that for a while, but then it's just kind of like we run out of steam, we run out of fuel because the thing itself is not sufficient, the mechanics of transaction. You want a more, but because you also you love numbers. There's a natural, right? There's a there's a natural attraction, um, and you also invested, you had experiences with it there that were beautiful and important. But I also think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that if you're an educator and you deal with money and numbers, well, you can bring education into the financial game where it then becomes value of liberation, right? People starting to be free. Exactly. So, whereas before, in the money game, if we only look at a job at surface level, it's really just time for money, right? You trade your time for money. It's not sufficient when when you're alive, especially when you deal with numbers that impact people's lives, it's not sufficient to go home and know, like, oh, you know, I I did transactions. So you really shifted yourself from a transactional point of view to a transformative point of view. How can I use what I do to actually not deal with numbers but deal with humanized numbers, with with numbers that that deal with humans? And this is this is so great because to me this is like a catalyst or it's like it's a vehicle for our humanness. We might do something that looks that looks mechanic or that that looks very artificial on the outside, but if we really bring our truth into it, we humanize it and now it becomes a vessel for real value. As I think you um you demonstrated really well. Um, I really like that because you're able now to go niche. Yeah, it's like if before you were all right, there are so many people transactional.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

That's a thing. You nailed it the word business transactional before it was very much a transactional thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah, and when you're transactional, you're basically here for everybody who has money. And now, because you had that epiphany, you you actually tighten your view angle, you become more specific, you become now specific to those who want education and provision of value in the realm of what you do. So, but the interesting thing is that a lot of people will think like, well, but now you have l fewer clients because you're not like for everybody who wants your services. But you talked about something else, you talked about humans, which means that now you have real relationships, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

You deal with real humans before you deal dealt with what with wallets, with numbers, with commissions, with phone calls, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

I think sometimes it was a phone call comes in and it's like, okay, when's the next phone call coming in? And it is, it's the it's now I have more time to provide and do my business and provide the level of service that I want to. And it feels so good. It feels so good to not cut people off at 15 minutes or 30 minutes. It's like, oh, you need another 15, you need another bit to really understand this. Okay, let's let's do this.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

What would you say is the light that you bring into the darkness? What is the specific light that you bring through your work? And what is the darkness that you see that you deal with in your work? So kind of like these relationships that you talk about, they're they're build on something, right? They're build on what you have to give, but also on what is needed, versus there's money around to be made, right? Let's just go, and that's what drives the relationship. What is what are these two poles, these polar opposites that attract each other in your case?

SPEAKER_02 13:41

It's you know, it would it's probably the the money and the relationships because it's the if I create the relationship and I provide the service that I want, money follows. And sometimes I see it in my industry where if they focus on the money and the number of of business they're doing, then the human part of it is second, right? Like the the the customer comes second because they're focusing on the money versus on the person. So for me, it's if I focus on my relationships, I focus on the people and I'm not keeping track of what I my goal has to be for the month or for the year or any of that, then it just falls into place. I'm gonna end up doing well because I'm helping the people and doing the business that I want to do.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

But so the need that you address in your business, which is a financial need, there's a reason why you are doing this. And and I want to just briefly dig deeper into like, I don't believe that everybody's supposed to do everything. I, for example, I do what I do because I went through this. I went through work confusion, professional, you know, bullshit, and I had the whole thing collapse in my head. What is your reason to be so dedicated in offering people financial freedom or financial legroom or financial headroom? Why you? I mean, I know you're an educator and you are uh an enabler, you're a provider, and I know that you have all this skill set around numbers, but why are you the right person to talk to people who are possibly like in financial need or who need financial advice? Is it something that you experience for yourself or in your family, or something that something that you know you bring along that makes you especially valid as a as a mouthpiece for this?

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Yeah, I mean both, it both, you know, I like I said, I I grew up, I'm an immigrant, so I we grew up with very limited resources. And I, you know, went to college, I followed all the paths that you're supposed to follow, but there was a lack of financial education anywhere. So I got into bad habits. I did things the wrong way. That was the big thing I did. You name something that you shouldn't do, I probably did it. I put myself in a very deep hole, very young. Wow. And it was really hard to get out of that hole. And then I, you know, I took a job just because I needed when I was going to school at a bank. And there I just started to learn by experience. And the more that I learned, the more that I saw how hard it was for other people too. They were, they were having the same challenges I was having. Exact same thing. And the longer I stayed at the bank, the longer I learned, I was like, okay, I'm learning, applying what I'm learning to my life. And it's it's working.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

So right.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

So then from that, it was helping my parents, helping my sisters. Um, one prime example, right? It's even when here it's getting into student loan data. I'm pretty sure I took out a student loan that I did not need at all because it was offered to me with no consequence in place. And now I mean my family around me, like they know, like, okay, we're gonna call her up and and figure out what's the difference between this or that. So it's really my life experience of that information just not being provided whatsoever. Me just happening to take a job that taught me all that info, and then me running with it, and then taking what I learned and then just putting it back.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Okay, that there you go. I think you summed up everything I believe to be true about happy work. Everything. It's all it's all there. First off, there's something that's just irreversibly, inevitably true about you. You're an educator, you are a provider. That's just given. But then through your experiences, you learned how to bring education and provision into the world through your own hardship, which really focuses your light. So I feel like because you experienced all this, you are a trustworthy person to bring that value to the people who need it because you see them. In them, you see yourself, and they see themselves in you. You know, when we see that we should do work that is really just about giving our younger self advice, it really just means that the light that we have in us to give was shaped by our experiences, but it these experiences also connect us with the people who need us the most. And so I'm thrilled that people like you exist. Great example of happy work because I think you're not finding happiness in your work, you are bringing your own happiness into your work and you're spreading it, you're spreading it with the people, and that makes the world a bright a brighter place and uh and therefore also a freer place, a place where people become free because they don't have the financial burden. And and specifically, I don't know your industry that well, but I know the state of things enough to know that there are a lot of businesses and a lot of, you know, not great people who are trying to rob people of their financial freedom. So it's important that people who went through that hardship and who were formed by that hardship to bring their light into the world in a different way that liberates people, that they exist, that they exist and that they are relentless like you. Would you ever retire from doing that?

SPEAKER_02 19:56

You know, my husband and I always talk about retiring, but it's I don't think it's actually retiring. Like I think we would stop doing our current job, but it would be to do something else, and that something else would also fall into like doing, I guess we we say it like working, but not for money, but it would also fall in the education and providing bucket.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

You know that was a trick question, right? I set you up there because uh, after everything you said, retirement is not in the books for you. You can't. You just can't, you have an obligation. You just explain to the world, to the entire audience, that Verenice is born to do this, and and that your entire history shaped you to be that too, right? In the forest, you are that tree, and a tree does not retire. A tree keeps on giving until the tree is done giving, and the tree is usually only done giving, you know, when when it's time. So I like that, but I do, you know, we we talked on the on the pre-interview, we talked about helping and giving and giving back, and this is always a very loaded conversation to have because you obviously we showed that now in the last 25 minutes, you are giving a lot, you're giving yourself, but you're also receiving in return, which allows you to give more. So if one day you retire, maybe it's just because you ask for less and you can give more freely.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah, yeah. I like I like that. I like that a lot. It would be exactly that. It would be, you know, the giving in a different way. You know, maybe a hundred percent on our own terms rather than an employer that we still have to keep in mind.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Absolutely. So you detach your From the transactional obligations more and more so that you can offer more transform transformative energy. Wow. Okay, I think we covered so much ground, um, way more than I intended to, which is always amazing. So this was great. Thank you so much, Verianese. May I ask you, do you like to read?

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yes, I love reading.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

What kind of books do you read?

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Oh man, it just depends. Sometimes it depends. Right now, I just picked up a book. I like reading books that are about finance and growth and you know, thinking differently, uh learning anything that you know puts me to learn. And right now I'm uh actually it's you know not a hard book, but it's a good book and it's uh finance for people with ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Oh, because it's wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

So it's very different.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

It's uh people that think differently have different money habits. They think about money completely like different. So right now it's really assessing, like like looking at it and saying, okay. Um, because that's again one of the biggest things for me is when I'm working with people, I can't give everybody the exact same advice with the same delivery.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

It's gonna work differ differently for people, right? And like picking up on their how they work and how they are and how they're gonna receive the information.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Um, so right now it's it's that.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Great, great. Well, I have another book coming for you your way.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

This okay, oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

My wife and I just published this book for the first time in the United States. It has been around for more than 30 years. My father wrote this book in 1994.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

It sold more than a million times, I think 1.5 million times. It's it's a book that talks about growth, natural growth, growing, you know, in accordance with universal principles and universal laws. So I think, you know, as the underbelly of everything you do, this is probably always a to go back and you know, ground yourself again and then you know apply it in the money game. And so for everybody listening who hasn't checked it out yet, the Lola Principle on www.thelola principle.com, go check it out. It's available everywhere. And please let me know how you like it. And yeah, and so it's gonna come your way very soon. And you also please let me know once you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Oh, yes, I'm gonna read it right away.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Okay, so this concludes uh this beautiful um guest episode with Verniz León Hurtado. Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Yeah, uh Instagram and LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is you know Verenice Leon Hurtado, and for Instagram it's uh Cafecito Home Looms.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Nice. Okay, we're gonna make sure to have all of this in the show notes. So, people please reach out if you have any questions, want to be inspired, or need to talk to Verenice about financial education. And thank you so much again for taking the time. This has been a beautiful conversation, and I think there was so much value in it, uh so much for people to sink their teeth into it. I am excited to talk to you next time, and until then, I sign off.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Thank you so much.